710 tunnel issues

[So Pas Res]

John Hedblom wrote:

... Selfish people always want someone else to give up something for their own benefit.

Jeezers, John. Will ya look at that projection? Don't your own words describe you as well?

[So Pas Res]

Tired of the arrogance wrote:

This battle has gone on for 30+ years. The NIMBY mentality is sad. The people who live in South Pasadena enjoy the freedoms of free travel through every other city that has a freeway through it. I find it hilarious that the complaint on the tunnel here is that it would increase traffic through South Pasadena from people avoiding the tunnel. Did it cross your mind all the people who would use the tunnel drive through your town every day? South Pasadena is Impossible to negotiate from 6-9 and 3-6 every weekday. Do you people come out of your houses? I think to prove your altruistic tendencies you should never drive on a freeway anywhere the rest of your life. Live the South Pasadena ideal of making the drive to San Diego a 6 hour venture-on the best day. I wish I could say you have your head in the sand-it appears to be in another place.

HERE'S A NOVEL IDEA! To those of you who NEED the 710 freeway connector to cut down your commute to/from work: BUY A HOME NEAR YOUR WORKPLACE!!!!! Hey, how about that?????!!!! Simple, right? Wouldn't this alternative be better for the environment, reduce your transportation costs and drive time, and perhaps even contribute to your health and mental health (cut down the amount of carbon monoxide that you inhale on a daily basis, maybe reduce your road rage and stress associated with traffic/driving, etc.). SIMPLE, RIGHT? "I hate my daily commute. Maybe I should move closer to my workplace." No brainer. People do this all the time, right? Make life simpler for yourselves. Move closer to your workplace. Voila!

[BOB2]

The extreme faction against the 710 tunnel compromise are always ready to compromise their arguments. The tunnel is now bad because not every trip through South Pasadena will use it? Will enough use it to relieve the congestion on Fair Oaks by 1/3 or 1/2. Will fuel consumption go down due to less stop and go traffic? Will there be less green house gases produced? The answers are knowable, but the extremists don't want to deal in facts? I say let the silent majority in South Pasadena vote, and they'll vote for the 710 tunnel compromise, and start spending their taxes on parks and fixing local streets, battered by 50 years of local traffic?

[PASADENA RESIDENT]

Are tunnels the best thing with earthquakes?How many would possibly be trapped just because South Pasadena doesn't want it to take away homes the way other freeways have!!!!!!!!!!Finish it!

[SGV]

Sheesh wrote:

<quoted text>
Alhambra tried that. They also let streets decay to try "demonstrate" the "need" for the extension. All they managed to do was turn a charming small town into an ugly, miserable place...

An an Alhambran, I remember that. Our hare-brained politicians thought that by frustrating thousands of drivers with this that they would convince the public to support the extension. Little did they realize that the heavy traffic came from our own city...after allowing rampant, undercontrolled growth go on for the past 30 years.

[So Pas Res]

BOB2 wrote:

The extreme faction against the 710 tunnel compromise are always ready to compromise their arguments. The tunnel is now bad because not every trip through South Pasadena will use it? Will enough use it to relieve the congestion on Fair Oaks by 1/3 or 1/2. Will fuel consumption go down due to less stop and go traffic? Will there be less green house gases produced? The answers are knowable, but the extremists don't want to deal in facts? I say let the silent majority in South Pasadena vote, and they'll vote for the 710 tunnel compromise, and start spending their taxes on parks and fixing local streets, battered by 50 years of local traffic?

Bob2, I hope you're not referring to me as an extremist. If you've been following my responses, I think the tunnel makes a good deal of sense as an alternative to an above-ground solution. Do I think that the surrounding communities could make better use of that money to support public education, public health, after-care/-school programs, school and public libraries, etc.? Yes. But, I'm also guessing that transportation money is a separate pool of resources, so probably inaccessible for these other more urgent purposes. Sorry, that's just my opinion that these human needs are much more important that you or anybody else's need to travel to work in a shorter amount of time. Values. What are ya gonna do with them? But, this environmental impact study needs to be continued until some good quality data can shed some light on what kinds of impact the tunnel might have on users, communities, the environment, etc. As I said prior, the tunnel doesn't seem to create any problems for So. Pas. Mrs. Parada noted 1 acre of land is needed for the exhaust exits? That is a marginal cost, compared to taking out streets and streets of current residents' homes. I still, nonetheless, feel for anyone who is adversely impacted even by this measure. Also, if you read some of my previous posts, I was also concerned about commuters' health and well-being travelling in a tunnel should an accident occur therein, and compromise the quality of the air in the tunnel and their ability to exit the tunnel to reduce these risks. And, as a parent, I'm not willing to have an above-ground freeway run alongside either the middle or senior high school. Please refer to the study that USC conducted that speaks to the health consequences of children living within 1/4 mile of a freeway. If you can't understand why So. Pas. residents, particularly those with kids, might not approve of an above-ground freeway, then I guess we have nowhere to go with our differences. Again, some of us So. Pas. residents may not oppose the 710 tunnel. It'd be very, very expensive, but apparently do-able and would relieve some of the traffic congestion that currently exists. Let's see what the study's findings are, shall we?

[So Pas Res]

BOB2 wrote:

The extreme faction against the 710 tunnel compromise are always ready to compromise their arguments. The tunnel is now bad because not every trip through South Pasadena will use it? Will enough use it to relieve the congestion on Fair Oaks by 1/3 or 1/2. Will fuel consumption go down due to less stop and go traffic? Will there be less green house gases produced? The answers are knowable, but the extremists don't want to deal in facts? I say let the silent majority in South Pasadena vote, and they'll vote for the 710 tunnel compromise, and start spending their taxes on parks and fixing local streets, battered by 50 years of local traffic?

This is my last post here, Bob2. I will, however, return to read some of the other posts, including yours. Yours are very informative as they represent those with like views. No offense about the Burbank comment. "You started it first." I know you're in Glendale, and it's a fine city. But, in my opinion, it's got nothing on So. Pas. Again, we're dealing with opinions. You're entitled to yours, I'm entitled to mine. In one of my posts, I suggested that perhaps some of the commuters who are in favor of the 710 connector freeway or tunnel should consider moving closer to their workplaces, and I'd also like to add that maybe they should consider finding different jobs. I did not mean this as a smart-arse comment. It was sincere. I got sick and tired of commuting to West L.A. everyday, so I found another job. End of problem. I don't know why anybody would perceive this as a far-fetched or illogical solution to their commuter problems. Millions of people change jobs or homes to cut down on drive time. Especially some of the conservaties among us, who in other contexts believe that gov't is too big these days, isn't finding solutions yourself that work for yourself something that you can get on board with? Again, I'm not trying to give you a bad time. I'm trying to have an intelligent virtual conversation with you and others here. I've not resorted to name calling, as this is anything but productive and takes us nowhere closer to understanding our differences in opinions, values, etc. But, for people to call So. Pas. residents "whiners" when they, themselves, have not taken any positive actions to mitigate their drive time and any irritation caused by the same, is just dumb. Some of us make adjustments to where we work, where we live, and don't beeatch about it. Why can't more people feel or be more empowered to do the same?

[part of post for John]

So Pas Res wrote:

<quoted text>
This is my last post here, Bob2. I will, however, return to read some of the other posts, including yours. Yours are very informative as they represent those with like views. No offense about the Burbank comment. "You started it first." I know you're in Glendale, and it's a fine city. But, in my opinion, it's got nothing on So. Pas. Again, we're dealing with opinions. You're entitled to yours, I'm entitled to mine. In one of my posts, I suggested that perhaps some of the commuters who are in favor of the 710 connector freeway or tunnel should consider moving closer to their workplaces, and I'd also like to add that maybe they should consider finding different jobs. I did not mean this as a smart-arse comment. It was sincere. I got sick and tired of commuting to West L.A. everyday, so I found another job. End of problem. I don't know why anybody would perceive this as a far-fetched or illogical solution to their commuter problems. Millions of people change jobs or homes to cut down on drive time. Especially some of the conservaties among us, who in other contexts believe that gov't is too big these days, isn't finding solutions yourself that work for yourself something that you can get on board with? Again, I'm not trying to give you a bad time. I'm trying to have an intelligent virtual conversation with you and others here. I've not resorted to name calling, as this is anything but productive and takes us nowhere closer to understanding our differences in opinions, values, etc. But, for people to call So. Pas. residents "whiners" when they, themselves, have not taken any positive actions to mitigate their drive time and any irritation caused by the same, is just dumb. Some of us make adjustments to where we work, where we live, and don't beeatch about it. Why can't more people feel or be more empowered to do the same?

Sorry for the mix up, guys...

[No on 710]

If you look at the history of the project the origional route was supposed to run through San Marino into Pasadena but that was blocked and never came back and instead El Sereno and South Pasadena were put on the chopping block. Don't talk about eletist south pas, when the arguements are in regards to any freeway project, not just the idea of one going through South Pasadena. What will a tunnel, overland route or any sort of freeway project solve. Not traffic. Think about the reality of traffic. How does a freeway solve traffic? It's like curing obesity by putting another notch in your belt. Eventually we will have to deal with this issue.

[So Pas Res]

I very much agree with you. I anticipate that if the environmental impact/feasibility study provides accurate data regarding people's intended behavior (use vs. non-use of the tunnel), I have a feeling this will be among their findings. For those commuters who spend an hour or more in traffic and must(?) travel through Alhambra and So. Pas. to get to work, neither the tunnel or above-ground freeway will, I believe, significantly affect their commute. If they need to access the 134 west, that freeway is always congested in the morning. A 710 connector is NOT going to fix THAT for them. In fact, I can imagine a traffic jam coming off any 710 north (near Huntington Memorial Hospital) to a 134 west onramp. If they need to access the 210 west, there are actually a number of more effective ways to access this via surface streets, as well as the 210 east. I won't bother disclosing these possible routes here, but suffice it to say that if they used mapquest, google maps, yahoo maps, or a Thomas Guide, they CAN find alternate routes that should alleviate the burden of sitting in stop-and-go traffic up Fremont Ave. or Fair Oaks. Lastly, for the commuters who spend significantly more than one hour en route to their workplace, a 4+ mile stretch of a 710 will likely do little to reduce your drive time, irritation/frustration, etc. You may want something that does, but this ain't it. I used to drive just 22 miles to West Los Angeles to work, and a 4-mile stretch to quicken up ANY part of that ride would have done very little in these respects, and I tried EVERY possible freeway and surface street alternative. I believe that if anything in your life causes you unbearable pain and suffering, you need to generate a plan for creative change else suffer the consequences. Have you thought about how much carbon monoxide you suck in everyday during your commute, how much less time, cumulatively, you have to spend on your hobbies, with your significant other, and with your family by not changing your circumstances? Some, not all, of you probably should either move closer to your workplace or change jobs if you're in that much pain. I did and I'm much better off as the result.

[SGV Succession Now]

No Gold Line; then no sales tax and No Toll lanes! Refuse taxation without representation. Don't buy big ticket items in LA County, use the internet. And just revolt and disregard the toll lanes. If you get a ticket don't pay. It will only work if everyone joins in.

We need a succession movement from Los Angeles now. Those criminals will keep riding us for taxes until we're dead.

Who ever puts together a succession movement from Los Angeles will get honored with a statue at both ends of the SGV. The SGV has enough money to become the next Orange County and can be great if we use our money on ourselves. We should annex the unincorporated areas of LA that are a blight in our communities, fix them up and have nothing to do with Los Angeles County except maybe contract with them for emergency services when needed. We pay an arm and a leg for those services anyway.

It is as clear as day now. The SGV makes the money. We pay taxes. LA country takes money. They are tax takers. We give; they take and give it to anyone in LA County but us. That is the only relationship we have with LA County. Most recently they have been bullied by the San Fernando Valley mafia after this area ran a successful succession movement. Good for them, bad for us.

These bastards in LA City Hall and at the MTA think we are too complacent and stupid to put together a succession movement. LA County and those city hall bribe taking crooks think we are nothing more than a bunch of do nothing aging W.A.S.P’s coupled with gullible money making immigrants. Let’s pack our shit and leave and see how well they do when the gravy train stops.

[Sheesh]

So Pas Res wrote:

<quoted text>
HERE'S A NOVEL IDEA! To those of you who NEED the 710 freeway connector to cut down your commute to/from work: BUY A HOME NEAR YOUR WORKPLACE!!!!! Hey, how about that?????!!!! Simple, right? Wouldn't this alternative be better for the environment, reduce your transportation costs and drive time, and perhaps even contribute to your health and mental health (cut down the amount of carbon monoxide that you inhale on a daily basis, maybe reduce your road rage and stress associated with traffic/driving, etc.). SIMPLE, RIGHT? "I hate my daily commute. Maybe I should move closer to my workplace." No brainer. People do this all the time, right? Make life simpler for yourselves. Move closer to your workplace. Voila!

A-freaking-men.

[BOB2]

Now earthquakes will shake the tunnel and bad things will happen? Ooooh so scary! The nonsense from the extremist faction in South Pasadena who love the grid lock on Fair Oaks, and breathing carbon monoxide from stop and go traffic stuck on City streets always have a "scary" new argument? Are the people in Paris and Madrid trembling in terror from the major road tunnels they have in those cities?

[Longtime Pasadenan]

pave it wrote:

Don't include Real Pasadena with south pas. We were all for the Gold Line, SoPas tried to block it even after it was completed!
The Last time it was put to public vote Pasadena voted 70% to complete the 710.

I couldn't agree more. South Pas and Pasadena are totally apart on this. Complete the link!

[Liberacesballsac]

Speaking of tunnels, you should see mine! Its simply a delightful journey through my tunnel. Its absolutly wonderful. Please purchase my new album, through the link below....Love you, my darlings -L

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[Busted]

yes on 710, pave it!! most of these homes are asian own, just to much traffic in so. pasadena. the city looks like hong kong? might as well name the city south asia pasadena?

[BOB2]

The same people with the same lame arguments that don't hold any water on the 710 Tunnel option. The tunnel is feasible, the traffic is not going away, most of the people who live in South Pasadena work somewhere else. And they don't have any problem going through other peoples neighborhoods. because with the tunnel option they are now nothing but selfish. Fact: vehicle emissions are down over 99% with modern technology, by the time the tunnel is built under these Nimby's, trucks will be 99% cleaner, due to standards already in place. Next we will have a generation of hybrids and electrics that will be even cleaner. But, traffic will persist especially in South Pasadena.