Hindu and Mormon leaders examine similarities between their religions

[Aupmanyav]

Asmara wrote:

as i said.. there are many different paths.. or places to "buy tickets" if you will.. but the final destination remains the same.

I do not need to travel. I have arrived.

[Aupmanyav]

MrZip wrote:

What do you feel that the hindu views have done to the betterment of its followers?

Hindus did not engage in any religious wars in India throughout their history. Hindus looked for happiness in things other than material possessions. Hindus cared for the family, children, and elders.

[Asmara]

Aupmanyav wrote:

<quoted text>I do not need to travel. I have arrived.

you have? then why are you still here??? lol ;-)

[Aupmanyav]

Every where is here. There is no there. 'Ekameva Adviteeyam', (it is me all around, there is no second). This is Brahman. This is the knowledge beyond duality.

[Aupmanyav]

Of course, I am not unique in Brahman, you too are none other.

[MrZip]

aryans are best wrote:

<quoted text>
Hinduism is the only religion which does not behave as a materialised manmade institution.Hinduism does not really ask its followers to perform unique practices ,bond believers together and absorb the non believers into this organisation.
Instead, a person wanting to be a hindu need not formally convert[something which is not defined on hinduism] but follow whichever principles of hinduism he thinks are good.Merely following all the good principle makes him a hindu.Hinduism does not make an organisation and gather members.
Just sprinking water on the name of god does not make a person hindu.Similarly, we want hindus to follow the good principles of other religion rather than to succumb to organisational and political group acting on the name of god for their own benefit.

Here's what I've noticed about organized religions, especially christian religons: It all starts out beautiful. It all starts out being taught the "Milk", which is faith repentance baptism etc. You get all the beautiful parts that make you feel great. Then you progress into the parts that tell you the penalties if you don't follow the teachings: Hell, limitations, damnation from a God that you are taught is all loving, all knowing. That creates a bit of a dichotomy that I do not hold to anymore.

If what you're saying is true, I think Hinduism is unique and beautiful. Dharma is a reasonable principle that can be seen throughout the world, as is kharma. Its logical and natural, and is also spiritual. It seems to encompass everything, and allows people to follow their own path with principles that empower them.

I do not believe in the devil. I refuse to believe in a God that punishes or withholds. We live in a world that is so diverse in people and resources that I struggle to belive in anything less than a broader view. Life itself has a natural progression in it.

[AntiScientificCr eationist]

MrZip:
We have a pretty good footprint of meso america, and it doesnt look good for the book of mormon that way.

ASC:
This is false. When I met and talked with Richard Hansen, the Mesoamerican archaeologist famous for his El Mirador findings and ideas, he told me over and over again how absolutely at the BEGINNING we are in Mesoamerican archaeology and understanding the ancients. I talked with Richard on many occassions, and everytime he told me of some of the exciting new discoveries they are making, as well as new technology and ideas for excavating SAFER than in the past. The people in Mesoamerica are so poor that they rob, kill, and steal ANYTHING they can get their hands on for money. Richard told me he had to hire 5 extras who guarded an unknown temple/tomb he discovered and they all had uzi machine guns. They had to pay big because the natives would come at them by the dozens with grenades, guns, knives, etc. ANYTHING to get to the artifacts so they could sell them.

We don't yet have anywhere near even a mere 10% of ancient Mesoamerica understood, let alone dug up and written about. We just barely got the Maya glyphs translated a mere handful of years ago. The vast majority of the information has been irretrievably lost and destroyed as per the Mesoamerican archaeologist Richard Hansen from UCLA.

You simply spout without knowledge. I suggest you stop, it's embarrassing for you.

[Hannah Rebekah]

Aupmanyav wrote:

<quoted text>I do not need to travel. I have arrived.

Is the term that you use 'arrived' as others use for enlightenment? Are these terms synonymous with theosis, deification, apotheosis, divinization or exaltation?
Nirvana to the Buddha is that the same for the Hindu?
How hard is it for westerners to live by a practices that transcends suffering and turns from the material world?
I have heard that the Hindu leave food at the temples for the ones who have passed on who; have 'arrived'? And also that at Nirvana(hope that is your word for the next life) there will be families together and that there will more creations. I hope I am not misstating your beliefs. But if this is true I would love to learn more about it.

[MrZip]

AntiScientificCreationist wrote:

MrZip:
We have a pretty good footprint of meso america, and it doesnt look good for the book of mormon that way.
ASC:
This is false. When I met and talked with Richard Hansen, the Mesoamerican archaeologist famous for his El Mirador findings and ideas, he told me over and over again how absolutely at the BEGINNING we are in Mesoamerican archaeology and understanding the ancients. I talked with Richard on many occassions, and everytime he told me of some of the exciting new discoveries they are making, as well as new technology and ideas for excavating SAFER than in the past. The people in Mesoamerica are so poor that they rob, kill, and steal ANYTHING they can get their hands on for money. Richard told me he had to hire 5 extras who guarded an unknown temple/tomb he discovered and they all had uzi machine guns. They had to pay big because the natives would come at them by the dozens with grenades, guns, knives, etc. ANYTHING to get to the artifacts so they could sell them.
We don't yet have anywhere near even a mere 10% of ancient Mesoamerica understood, let alone dug up and written about. We just barely got the Maya glyphs translated a mere handful of years ago. The vast majority of the information has been irretrievably lost and destroyed as per the Mesoamerican archaeologist Richard Hansen from UCLA.
You simply spout without knowledge. I suggest you stop, it's embarrassing for you.

Oh! Sorry. I'm sure you'll let me know when proof of elephants, horses, Steel making, Written records, reformed egyptian, christ, coins, cureloms and cumoms, wheat and barley and whatever else show up. You're right, Im a retard. We just havent found it yet! I wonder If its too late to get rebaptised... hrm.

[AntiScientificCr eationist]

Hey, I have an archaeologist VERIFYING that we do NOT have a good foothold of knowing what ancient Mesoamerica was all about, that's all I am pointing out. The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. I don't say all the issues and problems of the Book of Mormon have been solved, whatsoever. I am just saying be careful when saying things you are not sure of, if you can at all help it. I did not say you are a retard, nor would I. I do think you are a might bit quick to judgment on some things however. I, like you, would really love it if more was available, but at this point, it may well be impossible due to the history of the atrocious Spanish conquest and its almost total destruction of the culture. Of the hundreds of thousands of codexes which existed, we have only 4. And not WHOLE ones either. Now what if we only had 4 books which survived a holocaust of records from the Library of Congress. Would that honestly represent the thought of this land? HONESTLY?

[MrZip]

AntiScientificCreationist wrote:

Hey, I have an archaeologist VERIFYING that we do NOT have a good foothold of knowing what ancient Mesoamerica was all about, that's all I am pointing out. The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. I don't say all the issues and problems of the Book of Mormon have been solved, whatsoever. I am just saying be careful when saying things you are not sure of, if you can at all help it.

Riiiight. I usually NEVER say NEVER. I finished with Absolutes when I left the mormon church. Do I believe what you are saying? No. Also, thank you for telling me to be careful.

AntiScientificCreationist wrote:

I did not say you are a retard, nor would I. I do think you are a might bit quick to judgment on some things however.

Great. Your previous superiority complex was hard to judge. Quick to judgement on such a broad range of archeological evidence that is "Missing" or undiscovered seems like a reasonable assumption to me, but then again, I don't have a need to defend a religion anymore. Maybe when theyre done not finding so many biblical evidences, theyll work on the book of mormon, but I doubt it. Untill then, with Paul Chessman dead and buried, IT seems like a long shot.

AntiScientificCreationist wrote:

I, like you, would really love it if more was available, but at this point, it may well be impossible due to the history of the atrocious Spanish conquest and its almost total destruction of the culture. Of the hundreds of thousands of codexes which existed, we have only 4. And not WHOLE ones either. Now what if we only had 4 books which survived a holocaust of records from the Library of Congress. Would that honestly represent the thought of this land? HONESTLY?

Explanations.

[arya]

Hannah Rebekah wrote:

<quoted text>
Is the term that you use 'arrived' as others use for enlightenment? Are these terms synonymous with theosis, deification, apotheosis, divinization or exaltation?
Nirvana to the Buddha is that the same for the Hindu?
How hard is it for westerners to live by a practices that transcends suffering and turns from the material world?
I have heard that the Hindu leave food at the temples for the ones who have passed on who; have 'arrived'? And also that at Nirvana(hope that is your word for the next life) there will be families together and that there will more creations. I hope I am not misstating your beliefs. But if this is true I would love to learn more about it.

there is virtually no difference in today's hinduism and buddhism
kala,papa,deeksha,moksha nirvana are all found in vedanta texts of hindus

[AntiScientificCr eationist]

Mr Zip said:
Riiiight. I usually NEVER say NEVER. I finished with Absolutes when I left the mormon church. Do I believe what you are saying? No. Also, thank you for telling me to be careful.

ASC says:
I agree with you, never say never. The church does not deal in absolutes, as I have been involved for 47 years, so I have no idea where YOU went off track, but it wasn't the church which sent you thataway - GRIN!
I don't care if you don't believe me man. READ the evidence FOR YOURSELF. Forget spouting unsupported inanities at me with no evidence, READ IT YOURSELF.
Some GREAT sources showing we know very little about Mesoamerica, and that what we thought we knew ain't necessarily so now are:
David Freidel, Linda Schele, "Maya Cosmos - Three Thousand Years on the SHaman's Path" (ASTOUNDING astronomical insights and cultural upheavels in this book!)
John Major Jenkins, "Maya Cosmogenesis 2012," Another WHOPPER showing us what we think about the Maya may very well be far too little.Robert J. Sharer, "The Ancient Maya," 5th ed. Ask ANY Mesoamerican scholar who is one of the foremost leading lights on this subject and Sharer's name is in the upper eschelons of quality.
Linda Schele, David Freidel, "A Forest of Kings - The Untold Story of the Ancient Maya," again showing us what we thought we knew isn't so.
Michael D. Coe, "Breaking the Maya Code" PROVING that the very decipherment and understanding of the glyphs just happened "YESTERDAY" in archaeological terms. NOW we have to learn what they mean, now that as per 1992 we barely learned how to read and translate them. READ THIS BOOK DUDE.
Linda Schele, Peter Mathews, "The Code of Kings - The Language of Seven Sacred Maya Temples and Tombs," showing us how vastly much we are missing, and how precious what little we have and what little survived really is for us.
Linda Schele, Mary Ellen Miller, "The Blood of Kings - Dynasty and Ritual in Maya Art,"

Here are about a dozen books verifying without doubt (all since 1990) that what we know is so very little.

[Want to be Hindu]

arya wrote:

<quoted text>
there is virtually no difference in today's hinduism and buddhism
kala,papa,deeksha,moksha nirvana are all found in vedanta texts of hindus

I agree the Buddhist tends to say what reality is not. They call it ( sunyata) emptiness. We tend say what it is, bless (ananda).Hindus do talk on both sides of the equation I think we are the only ones who use both negative and positive theology

[John Martin]

Joseph Smith truly combined Eastern wisdom with Western understanding. He spoke of multiplicity of Gods. The souls evolvement to perfections through a term he called mortal probations.
In a sermon delivered in April, 1844, Joseph Smith said:” The soul had an existence from the time God had. The pure principles of matter are principles which can never be destroyed; they may be organized and reorganized, but not destroyed. They had no beginning, and can have no end." (The Contributor, vol 4, p. 257)
This concept is also taught in the some of the scriptures of the Hindus.( The Gita only worded a little different”The Soul has neither beginning nor an end. The wise mourn neither for the living or the dead. There was never a time that we will cease to exist, nor there a future where we cease to be. As worn out garments are shed by the body, worn out bodies are shed by the dweller. Death is certain for the born and rebirth is certain for the dead. We need not grieve for that which is unavoidable and certain.
According to Joseph Smith, God also told Moses that the extent of the worlds spans time as well as space:
"There are many worlds that have passed away.... And there are many that now stand ... And as one earth shall pass away, and the heavens thereof even so shall another come; and there is no end to my works, neither to my words" (Moses 1: 35, 38)
Unknown to most Mormons, Joseph Snith was a student of the Kabbalah, and also familiar with Hermetism and Freemasonary.
The Zohar, which is only a part of the Kabbalah, is the great store-house of the esoteric teaching of the ancient Hebrews.The following is a quote from the Sephar ha Zohar. The souls must re-enter the Absolute, from whence they have emerged. But to accomplish this end they must develop the perfections; the germ of which is planted in them. And if they have not developed these traits in this one life, then they must commence another, a third, and so forth. They must go on like this until they acquire the condition that allows them to associate again with God
Smith privately taught that "the purpose of successive probations was to permit the gradual accumulation of intelligence and knowledge
I am Mormon and am a student of Joseph Smith but I doubt if he would even recognize the Church as it is today which is Dogmas, Doctrines , rituals and ceremonies and little inspiration. Similar to the way the Catholic Church reinterpreted and revised the teachings of Christ some of Joseph Smith’s ideas seem to have become
Unintentionally re-translated. Harold Bloom,an internationally recognized literary critic,and Professor at Yale University uses his 1993 book The American Religion to examine the Latter-day Saint religion, particularly Joseph Smith, whom he refers to as "an authentic religious genius [who] surpassed all Americans, before or since." But he stated the church is becoming more and more similar to the Orthodox. He said many elements of Joseph's mystery religion were necessarily veiled or attenuated--and by the late twentieth century, perhaps largely forgotten. Another example:
Michael Otterson, Director of LDS Church affairs, recently said he thought the LDS church was closest to the Unification church in Philosophy. Joseph Smith and Brigham Young would most certainly frowned on being called a “Moonie” Maybe The church under Hinckley has become a little more orthodox, maybe less mystical but certainly not a “Moonie”

[Paul]

John Martin wrote:

Joseph Smith truly combined Eastern wisdom with Western understanding. He spoke of multiplicity of Gods. The souls evolvement to perfections through a term he called mortal probations.
In a sermon delivered in April, 1844, Joseph Smith said:” The soul had an existence from the time God had. The pure principles of matter are principles which can never be destroyed; they may be organized and reorganized, but not destroyed. They had no beginning, and can have no end." (The Contributor, vol 4, p. 257)
This concept is also taught in the some of the scriptures of the Hindus.( The Gita only worded a little different”The Soul has neither beginning nor an end. The wise mourn neither for the living or the dead. There was never a time that we will cease to exist, nor there a future where we cease to be. As worn out garments are shed by the body, worn out bodies are shed by the dweller. Death is certain for the born and rebirth is certain for the dead. We need not grieve for that which is unavoidable and certain.
According to Joseph Smith, God also told Moses that the extent of the worlds spans time as well as space:
"There are many worlds that have passed away.... And there are many that now stand ... And as one earth shall pass away, and the heavens thereof even so shall another come; and there is no end to my works, neither to my words" (Moses 1: 35, 38)
Unknown to most Mormons, Joseph Snith was a student of the Kabbalah, and also familiar with Hermetism and Freemasonary.
The Zohar, which is only a part of the Kabbalah, is the great store-house of the esoteric teaching of the ancient Hebrews.The following is a quote from the Sephar ha Zohar.

Loved your post and I too have been studing the very things that you are talking about. You may have already hooked up with some others LDS who are followers of the teachings of Josesph Smith as you said I have with a few links. Let me know if you want to know my links. I would love to know more of your learnings. As I too know the very things that you talked about. I think this thread is double posted and it is in the LDS forum with some other thread. One can get quite nasty with some of the Anti-Mormons in there and we could use your knowledge in there. We need the numbers to spread make good on Josephs name be known for "GOOD" as they are making good on , or "Evil" Here is the link and the thread is:
Mormons, are Christians, too
http://www.topix.net/forum/religion/latter-da...

[Aupmanyav]

Hannah Rebekah wrote:

Is the term that you use 'arrived' as others use for enlightenment? Are these terms synonymous with theosis, deification, apotheosis, divinization or exaltation?
Nirvana to the Buddha is that the same for the Hindu?
How hard is it for westerners to live by a practices that transcends suffering and turns from the material world?
I have heard that the Hindu leave food at the temples for the ones who have passed on who; have 'arrived'? And also that at Nirvana(hope that is your word for the next life) there will be families together and that there will more creations. I hope I am not misstating your beliefs. But if this is true I would love to learn more about it.

That is right, Hannah, I have used 'arrived' with the meaning of knowing, enlightenment.

Deification - made into a God, but then I am an atheist, neither I am a God nor I believe in Gods. Exaltation - elation. No,'arriving' is humbling not flying. Divinization - not if it means 'God'ization, sure, finding out, but there is nothing 'divine', so not the correct word. It is not Theosis (call to men to become holy, seek union with God), since I am an atheist. Apotheosis: again I am an atheist.

I remain very much the same Aupmanyav but more knowledgeable, one who understands, one who has no unanswered questions. Nibbana in Hinduism can have many meanings. Some take it as merging in God, some take it as living in proximity of God and being relived of the cycle of birth and death. That is the theist meaning. My Nirvana/Moksha is knowing that birth and death are illusions of our perception, there is nothing like these, and I should not think that I will go through them. What will die is 'I', the illusion, the temporary phenomenon. What will continue uninterrupted is atoms, energy, which constitute me.

For the illusionary, temporary 'I' to be worried about sorrows and to be eleated in pleasures is not meaningful. We should take them as passing phases. We should maintain our equanimity. If I eat cake, that is OK, if I eat bread, that also is OK.

Hindus give charity (or as you said) give food to beggars at the temple in the name of the deceased. It is a solace to think that when one is no more, those whom one loved remember him (or her). It does not do much for the deceased, it concerns those who are still here. Of course, those who do not know may think that what they give reaches the 'departed'.

Those who have 'arrived', do not need anything. They will earn (or may have already earned) their two loaves of bread (I am a retired person and I have saved enough for my needs).

[Nicki]

I'm almost done. There's slim pickings from here on out. Maybe I will read this later. Great stuff for insomniacs. hint hint. zzzzzzzz

[Nicki]

Hannah Rebekah wrote:

Sorry...this is also linked to the Mormon forum because of the name of the article:
"Hindu and Mormon leaders examine similarities between their religions"
I hope that doesn't bother you. It doesn't me and I'm Mormon. Actually, I have a lot of respect for the Hindu Religion but I must confess I don't know too much about it.

Can you say hypocrite? You "yelled" at me because the FLDS stuff got mixed in with your precious Mormon posts, but you did the same thing. You obviously understand how this happens, so you were just using it as a chance to show your rear to me.

That is not what turn the other cheek means.

Did you fifth wheel roll off a mountain in God's Country? I certainly hope not. You better send up a flare. Your boyfriend might get worried about you.

[ALI]

[56.68] Have you considered the water which you drink?