For Luis: Discrepancies in UN/WT/NGO essay

[thirdwitness]

Luis said on another thread:

"yes, and I found many discrepancies with 3rdwitness explanation of the UN issues. "

Exactly what discrepancies do you speak of?

[Luis]

thirdwitness wrote:

Luis said on another thread:
"yes, and I found many discrepancies with 3rdwitness explanation of the UN issues. "
Exactly what discrepancies do you speak of?

Great, never thought you would ask. I need clarification:
1. Do you believe that the UN SYSTEM is made up of NGO's?
(association of NGOs with the DPI does not constitute their incorporation into the United Nations system, nor does it entitle associated organizations or their staff to any kind of privileges, immunities or special status.)

2. Why did you try to explain away the difference between ECOSOC and The associated NGOs with DPI?

The reason why I ask this specific question is because the ECOSOC is a ONE of the main UN SYSTEM ORGANS. And the UN/DPI is UNDER the SECRETARIAT, one of the MAIN UN/SYSTEM organs. The DPI is NOT a main ORGAN. You spend alot of time explaining away the NGO relationship with ECOSOC when the real question should've been the relationship of NGO's with the DPI meeting the criterias under one of the main ORGANs, The Secretariat.

I would like you to tell me what UN SYSTEM means in this statement taken out of the registration paper:
Please note that association of NGOs with DPI does not constitute their incorporation into the United Nations system, nor does it entitle associated organizations or their staff to any kind of privileges, immunities or special status.”

I want to give you the benefit of doubt. That is why I am going to ask you very specific questions and hopefully that will clear some things out. I do not want to assume that you are intentionally giving out false information. With that in mind I would appreciate if you would answer some of my questions.

[Luis]

3rd witness, you had made this statement in one of your blogs: I will copy and paste.

--- The 53rd Session of the General Assembly in 1998 verified a change in the NGO/UN relationship.
http://www.hri.ca/uninfo/ngoaccess/sorensen/i... http://www.hri.ca/uninfo/ngoaccess/sorensen/s...
With the quote:“80. In the aftermath of the global conferences and with the emergence of a new international environment characterized by unrestricted flows of information, the United Nations has entered a new era in its relations with NGOs and other civil society actors. The Economic and Social Council recognized this changed relationship when it adopted resolution 1996/31. Many agencies, funds and programmes of the United Nations system have followed suit. The Secretariat, for its part, has tried to adapt to this new situation in creative and innovative ways and will pursue its efforts in this field. The United Nations is committed to seek the participation and contribution of NGOs in its work. New approaches, attitudes, methods and responses are required throughout the United Nations system if we are to meet this challenge effectively”

The above clearly confirms that after the WT obtained NGO status there was a clear change in the UN/NGO relationship.
----

Based on this copy and paste I want everyone to read the following post.

[Danny Haszard]

Thank you Luis

Why did Jehovah's Witnesses join the United
The Watchtower's UN hypocrisy is shocking it's like a devout Catholic,learning that their Pope secretly supports abortion.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/11/10732/1.as...

www. dannyhaszard.com/imagebeast.htm


www. dannyhaszard.com/slutsbeast.htm

http://www.watchtowerinformationservice.org/n...
----
Danny Haszard Bangor Maine

[Luis]

You made such a BOLD statement: to indicate that there was a change in the relationship between UN and the NGO.

I would appreciate if you answer my questions after I post the following.

I want everyone to follow this link:

First look at this one:(1998) read it thru and pay very close attention to paragraph 1 and 4. http://www.hri.ca/fortherecord1998/vol1/ngo.h...

At its 1997 session, the General Assembly adopted resolution 52/453 in which the Secretary-General was requested to prepare a report on:(a) existing arrangements and practices for the interaction of NGOs in all activities of the UN system; (b) the legal and financial implications of modifications in the current arrangements for NGO participation with a view to enhancing their participation; and (c) the question of the participation of NGOs from all regions, in particular from developing countries. The report of the Secretary-General to the 1998 General Assembly (A/53/170) contains information on, inter alia: institutional arrangements, a growing operational partnership, building bridges between civil society and the UN, participation of NGOs from all regions, and enhancing the participation of NGOs in all areas of the UN system.

Let’s go to the report (A/53/170)

[Luis]

http://www.hri.ca/fortherecord1998/documentat...

PAY VERY CLOSE ATTENTION TO PARA.12

12. The relationship between NGOs and the Department of Public Information is based on General Assembly resolution 13 (I) of 13 February 1946, by which the Assembly decided that the Department and its branch offices should actively assist and encourage national information services, educational institutions and other governmental and interested groups in spreading information about the United Nations. Formal association with the Department was given legislative authority by the Economic and Social Council in its resolution 1297 (XLIV). In cooperation with United Nations information centres and other United Nations offices worldwide, the Department’s NGO Section evaluates applications from NGOs wishing to enter into formal association with the Department. A Department of Public Information Committee examines the applications and takes decisions on whether or not to include NGOs in the annual Department of Public Information/NGO Directory. The NGO/Department of Public Information Executive Committee, composed of 18 members elected by NGOs in association with the Department of Public Information, serves as the liaison between NGOs and the Department. Services offered by the Department to NGOs are described in section IV of the present report.
NOW LETS LOOK AT RESOLUTION 13(I) OF FEBRUARY 1946

[Luis]

http://daccessdds.un.org/doc/RESOLUTION/GEN/N...

Page 17 ANNEX I read the whole ANNEX pay close attention to paragraph 2. What does it state? And continue reading the FULL ANNEX I, and I want you to tell us what changed in 1997?

[Luis]

http://daccessdds.un.org/doc/RESOLUTION/GEN/N...

Page 17 ANNEX I read the whole ANNEX pay close attention to paragraph 2. What does it state? And continue reading the FULL ANNEX I, and I want you to tell us what changed in 1997?

[Luis]

If by any case you are having a problem accessing RESOLUTION 13(I) OF FEBRUARY 1946

then go to this link:
http://www.un.org/documents/ga/res/1/ares1.ht...

and click on 13(I), and go straight to page 17 ANNEX I

let's see who is going to hack that link now!!

[Luis]

Now I want everyone to think about this.

RESOLUTION 13(I) dated back to the GENERAL ASSEMBLY FIRST SESSION IN 1946

Can 3rdwitness show me a change in CRITERIAS in 1997-98?

[thirdwitness]

Those are your discrepancies. I doubt very seriosly if anyone can even follow what you are saying.

You state: "You made such a BOLD statement: to indicate that there was a change in the relationship between UN and the NGO."

It is not MY bold statement. You yourself quoted from the session which stated:

“80. In the aftermath of the global conferences and with the emergence of a new international environment characterized by unrestricted flows of information, the United Nations has entered a new era in its relations with NGOs and other civil society actors. The Economic and Social Council recognized this changed relationship when it adopted resolution 1996/31. Many agencies, funds and programmes of the United Nations system have followed suit. The Secretariat, for its part, has tried to adapt to this new situation in creative and innovative ways and will pursue its efforts in this field. The United Nations is committed to seek the participation and contribution of NGOs in its work. New approaches, attitudes, methods and responses are required throughout the United Nations system if we are to meet this challenge effectively”

Are you saying they lied?

[Luis]

this is your blog http://thetruthaboutthetruthaboutthetruth.blo... UN whitewash I am going to debate you on.

I am NOT done with the questions. But, I am going to give you some time to respond to all my previous post!!

prove me wrong...

[thirdwitness]

Luis wrote:

<quoted text>
1. Do you believe that the UN SYSTEM is made up of NGO's?
2. Why did you try to explain away the difference between ECOSOC and The associated NGOs with DPI?
I would like you to tell me what UN SYSTEM means in this statement taken out of the registration paper:
Please note that association of NGOs with DPI does not constitute their incorporation into the United Nations system, nor does it entitle associated organizations or their staff to any kind of privileges, immunities or special status.”

I fail to see in relevance in your questions. I explained the difference in the NGOs because opposers try to apply information about NGOs with the Ecosoc to the WTS when it does not apply. That is explained already in the articles.

And I think the last statement you quote from means what it says. It is pretty clear. Association of NGOs with DPI does not constitute their incorporation into the United Nations system, nor does it entitle associated organizations or their staff to any kind of privileges, immunities or special status .

I hope you have something better than what you have presented so far. It is mumbo jumbo. Maybe you think you can ask a bunch of irrelevant questions that is a waste of time in answering and then when I fail to take the time to answer, you and fellow opposers can say:'See, thirdwitness can't answer my questions. He is trying to deceive everyone.' If you have a point to make please make it.

[thirdwitness]

Its in the article.

When you hear that the Watchtower Society was a United Nations NGO, you may not be aware that there is actually more than one kind of NGO. This fact is important, and is often deliberately obscured by those who try to condemn and criticize the Society.

In the United Nations system, there are NGOs who are associated with the Economic and Social Council (ECOSOC), and there are also NGOs associated with the Department of Public Information (DPI). The Watchtower Society was of the latter kind — associated with the DPI.

However, many websites and at least one book deliberately misleads their readers by quoting rules and stipulations to ECOSOC NGOs, and then pretending that those resolutions and rules apply to DPI NGOs, of which the Watchtower Society was one. This tactic is grossly dishonest and many of those who make this claim know full well they are misleading their readers.

http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-...

[thirdwitness]

Luis wrote:

You made such a BOLD statement: to indicate that there was a change in the relationship between UN and the NGO.

The bold statement again is not mine. In fact, the 1994 DPI brochure even testifies to the very fact the requirements and expectations of the DPI's NGOs were changing. Page six of the 1994 document says this:

“A new relationship between the UN and NGOs is now being created. We have seen this new relationship begin to mature. NGOs are taking on important new responsibilities.”

[Jace]

So much for the "We needed the libray card Lie"

@@@@@@@@@@

UNITED NATIONS





1-3-02





Dear Ms. XX,

The procedure for a library pass is the following: the interested party needs to fill out an



application form and supply a letter of recommendation in support of the research. If the needed



material is not available in a UN depository library (the list of depository libraries is posted at:



http://www.un.org/depts/dhl/deplib/countries/ ), the application is approved and sent to UN



Security. UN Security checks the application and, if approval is granted, instructs the Pass Office



to issue a library pass for the applicant.

The issuance of a library pass is independent of NGO status or any other status. There has been



no change in the library pass policy in general; however, please be advised that, as a



consequence of the September 11 attacks, no library passes are being issued for the time being



while the security situation at the UN is being studied.

Best regards,
Dana Loytved

Senior Reference Librarian-UN/SA Reference Desk-United Nations Library, New York
E-mail: [e-mail]

[Luis]

thirdwitness wrote:

Its in the article.
When you hear that the Watchtower Society was a United Nations NGO, you may not be aware that there is actually more than one kind of NGO. This fact is important, and is often deliberately obscured by those who try to condemn and criticize the Society.
In the United Nations system, there are NGOs who are associated with the Economic and Social Council (ECOSOC), and there are also NGOs associated with the Department of Public Information (DPI). The Watchtower Society was of the latter kind — associated with the DPI.
However, many websites and at least one book deliberately misleads their readers by quoting rules and stipulations to ECOSOC NGOs, and then pretending that those resolutions and rules apply to DPI NGOs, of which the Watchtower Society was one. This tactic is grossly dishonest and many of those who make this claim know full well they are misleading their readers.
http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-...

You had put ALL your concentration with the relationship with ECOSOC, one of the principal ORGAN of the UN SYSTEM. The DPI IS NOT, I SAY AGAIN IS NOT a principle organ of the UN system. Instead, the DPI is under the SECRETARIAT, ONE of the main PRINCIPLE ORGAN.

[Luis]

thirdwitness wrote:

Those are your discrepancies. I doubt very seriosly if anyone can even follow what you are saying.
You state: "You made such a BOLD statement: to indicate that there was a change in the relationship between UN and the NGO."
It is not MY bold statement. You yourself quoted from the session which stated:
“80. In the aftermath of the global conferences and with the emergence of a new international environment characterized by unrestricted flows of information, the United Nations has entered a new era in its relations with NGOs and other civil society actors. The Economic and Social Council recognized this changed relationship when it adopted resolution 1996/31. Many agencies, funds and programmes of the United Nations system have followed suit. The Secretariat, for its part, has tried to adapt to this new situation in creative and innovative ways and will pursue its efforts in this field. The United Nations is committed to seek the participation and contribution of NGOs in its work. New approaches, attitudes, methods and responses are required throughout the United Nations system if we are to meet this challenge effectively”
Are you saying they lied?

YOU made a BOLD STATEMENT by saying this:

The above clearly confirms that after the WT obtained NGO status there was a clear change in the UN/NGO relationship.

I want you to explain to us, what relationship changed? The criterias was ALWAYS THE SAME SINCE THE FIRST SESSION.

[Luis]

thirdwitness wrote:

<quoted text>
...Association of NGOs with DPI does not constitute their incorporation into the United Nations system, nor does it entitle associated organizations or their staff to any kind of privileges, immunities or special status .
I hope you have something better than what you have presented so far...

Now explain to us what the UN system consist off?? If we understand what the UN system consist off then we would be able to see why the Associated NGO will CAN NOT BECOME a PRINCIPLE ORGAN IN THE UN system.

[Luis]

3rdWitness, CAN YOU NAME ONE NGO who is a PRINCIPAL ORGAN OF THE UN SYSTEM?

...Association of NGOs with DPI does not constitute their incorporation into the United Nations system, nor does it entitle associated organizations or their staff to any kind of privileges, immunities or special status .
I hope you have something better than what you have presented so far...