What We Stand For

[Mr_Bill]

truth be told wrote:

What democrats stand for...
Nationalized Health Care - Communism
Nationalized Refinieries - Communism
Seizing profits from oil companies - Fascism

What you stand for: Bullshit, lies, thievery, fascism, thocracy: all un-American.

[Mr_Bill]

USAmerican wrote:

Conservatives stand for:
- self accountability
- self respect, respect for other's life, property
- drill for oil, everywhere, today until its gone
- dig for coal, everywhere, today until its gone
- build nuclear power, near every major city not on the east or west coast, in 10 years vehicles will be gas & battery powered... plug in your house, care, most everything
- build solar / wind power as the free market can support it
- no subsidies, for 10 years, no welfare, food stamps, unemployment, no entitlements, phase out social security (save for your own retirement), no foreign support, no foreign aid
- self reliance
- Rights are From God, Thru the People, To the State with Limited Federal Government
- Build the Border Walls
- Patrol the secured Border
- All ILLEGAL ALIENS are returned to their native country at the cost of the native country
- Iraq repays America for costs of the liberation
- Kill the bad guys, where ever they are
- Charity begins at home, from family, friends, private charities, community programs, local churches, synagogues, temples
- look to yourself, your family, your friends, your religion, your church / synagogue / temple for help, support, salvation

you should run for Ron Paul's seat.

[Eron]

Now that's a humorous (and one I agree with) analogy.

Don Joe wrote:

<quoted text>
Its not a capitalistic society. A capitalistic society requires government regulation to make trading fair and we don't have that.
There is no free lunch, no matter how much work you do for it. This is more like someone stole every bodies lunches and complains how much work stealing was, therefore they are entitled to the stolen lunches. Meanwhile, those who lunch was stolen are told to be more responsible and bring your own lunch, why do you want to take it from that guy that worked so hard stealing yours?

[USAmerican]

Let's try a definition of capitalism:

Capitalism is the economic system in which the means of production are owned by private persons, and operated for profit[1] and where investments, distribution, income, production and pricing of goods and services are predominantly determined through the operation of a free market.[2] Capitalism is usually considered to involve the right of individuals and corporations to trade, incorporate, employ workers, and use money, in goods, services (including finance), labor and land.[2] By definition, production and distribution in a capitalist system are governed by the free market rather than state regulation,[3] though this does not exclude the state defining and enforcing the basic rules of the market[4] and may include the provision of a few basic public goods and infrastructure.[5] Classic unrestrained capitalism is currently confined to theory, as "all of the capitalistic societies of the West have mixed economies that temper capitalism" with interventionist government regulation and social programs.[6] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism

>>> So less government regulation moves closer to a truly free market economy ... more government intervention moves to a marxist society

AKA

Capitalism has met with strong opposition throughout its history. Most of the criticism came from the left, but some from the right, and some from religious elements. Many 19th century conservatives were among the most strident critics of capitalism, seeing market exchange and commodity production as threats to cultural and religious traditions. Some critics of capitalism consider economic regulation necessary in order to reduce corruption, negligence, and numerous of other problems caused by free markets.

Prominent leftist critics have included socialists like Karl Marx, Frantz Fanon, Vladimir Lenin, Mao Zedong, Leon Trotsky, Antonio Gramsci and Rosa Luxemburg, and anarchists including Benjamin Tucker, Lysander Spooner, Pierre-Joseph Proudhon, Mikhail Bakunin, Peter Kropotkin, Emma Goldman, Murray Bookchin, Rudolf Rocker, Noam Chomsky, Naomi Klein, and others. Movements like the Luddites, Narodniks, Shakers, Utopian Socialists and others have opposed capitalism for various reasons. Marxism advocated a revolutionary overthrow of capitalism that would lead eventually to communism. Marxism also influenced social democratic and labour parties, which seek change through existing democratic channels instead of revolution, and believe that capitalism should be heavily regulated rather than abolished. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism#Marxi...

>>> See that last sentence ... more regulation is closer to marxism

Don Joe wrote:

<quoted text>
Its not a capitalistic society. A capitalistic society requires government regulation to make trading fair and we don't have that.
There is no free lunch, no matter how much work you do for it. This is more like someone stole every bodies lunches and complains how much work stealing was, therefore they are entitled to the stolen lunches. Meanwhile, those who lunch was stolen are told to be more responsible and bring your own lunch, why do you want to take it from that guy that worked so hard stealing yours?

[MidGeorgia]

Donna Atlanta GA wrote:

<quoted text>
No, it really stands for "I got mine, and to hell with you."

ACTUALLY...It's "I earned mine, why don't you do the same. Instead, you use the power of government to take mine and give it to you."

[Truth Be Told]

Mr_Bill wrote:

<quoted text>
What you stand for: Bullshit, lies, thievery, fascism, thocracy: all un-American.

I named the basis for my claims, why can't you?

Because the BULLSHIT & LIES is what you Liberals use to accomplish the THIEVERY you call taxes and FASCISM is what your intervention in private businesses profits and legitimate business practices is - ALL un-American since the founding of this nation.

THOCRACY??? whatever a tho-cracy is...

[Lawrence Wolf]

USAmerican wrote:

Obama stands for:
1.) Selma Got Me Born - NOT EXACTLY, your parents felt safe enough to have you in 1961 - Selma had no effect on your birth, as Selma was in 1965.(Google 'Obama Selma' for his full March 4, 2007 speech and articles about its various untruths.)
2.) Father Was A Goat Herder - NOT EXACTLY, he was a privileged, well educated youth, who went on to work with the Kenyan Government.
3.) Father Was A Proud Freedom Fighter - NOT EXACTLY, he was part of one of the most corrupt and violent governments Kenya has ever had.
4.) My Family Has Strong Ties To African Freedom - NOT EXACTLY, your cousin Raila Odinga has created mass violence in attempting to overturn a legitimate election in 2007, in Kenya. It is the first widespread violence in decades. The current government is pro-American but Odinga wants to overthrow it and establish Muslim Sharia law. Your half-brother, Abongo Obama, is Odinga's follower. You interrupted your New Hampshire campaigning to speak to Odinga on the phone. Check out the following link for verification of that....and for more. Obama's cousin Odinga in Kenya ran for president and tried to get Sharia muslim law in place there. When Odinga lost the elections, his followers have burned Christians' homes and then burned men, women and children alive in a Christian church where they took shelter.. Obama SUPPORTED his cousin before the election process here started. Google Obama and Odinga and see what you get.
5.) My Grandmother Has Always Been A Christian - NOT EXACTLY, she does her daily Salat prayers at 5am according to her own interviews. Not to mention, Christianity wouldn't allow her to have been one of 14 wives to 1 man.
- 6.) My Name is African Swahili - NOT EXACTLY, your name is Arabic and 'Baraka'(from which Barack came) means 'blessed' in that language. Hussein is also Arabic and so is Obama. Barack Hussein Obama is not half black. If elected, he would be the first Arab-American President, not the first black President. Barack Hussein Obama is 50% Caucasian from his mother's side and 43.75% Arabic and 6.25% African Negro from his father's side. While Barack Hussein Obama's father was from Kenya, his father's family was mainly Arabs.. Barack Hussein Obama's father was only 12.5% African Negro and 87.5% Arab (his father's birth certificate even states he's Arab, not African Negro).
- 7.) I Never Practiced Islam - NOT EXACTLY, you practiced it daily at school, where you were registered as a Muslim and kept that faith for 31 years, until your wife made you change, so you could run for office.
4-3-08 Article 'Obama was 'quite religious in Islam''http://www.wnd.com/index.php ...
- 8.) My School In Indonesia Was Christian - NOT EXACTLY, you were registered as Muslim there and got in trouble in Koranic Studies for making faces (check your own book). February 28, 2008. Kristoff from the New York Times a year ago: Mr. Obama recalled the opening lines of the Arabic call to prayer, reciting them with a first-rate accent. In a remark that seemed delightfully uncalculated (it'll give Alabama voters heart attacks), Mr. Obama described the call to prayer as 'one of the prettiest sounds on Earth at sunset.' This is just one example of what Pamela is talking about when she says 'Obama's narrative is being altered, enhanced and manipulated to whitewash troubling facts.'
- 9.) I Was Fluent In Indonesian - NOT EXACTLY, not one teacher says you could speak the language.
- 10.) Because I Lived In Indonesia, I Have More Foreign Experience - NOT EXACTLY, you were there from the ages of 6 to 10, and couldn't even speak the language. What did you learn.......... how to study the Koran and watch cartoons.
- 11.) I Am Stronger On Foreign Affairs - NOT EXACTLY, except for Africa (surprise) and the Middle East (bigger surprise), you have never been anywhere else on the planet and thus have NO experience with our closest allies.

Are you making any sense?- NOT EXACTLY.

[Lawrence Wolf]

USAmerican wrote:

Conservatives stand for:
- self accountability
- self respect, respect for other's life, property
- drill for oil, everywhere, today until its gone
- dig for coal, everywhere, today until its gone
- build nuclear power, near every major city not on the east or west coast, in 10 years vehicles will be gas & battery powered... plug in your house, care, most everything
- build solar / wind power as the free market can support it
- no subsidies, for 10 years, no welfare, food stamps, unemployment, no entitlements, phase out social security (save for your own retirement), no foreign support, no foreign aid
- self reliance
- Rights are From God, Thru the People, To the State with Limited Federal Government
- Build the Border Walls
- Patrol the secured Border
- All ILLEGAL ALIENS are returned to their native country at the cost of the native country
- Iraq repays America for costs of the liberation
- Kill the bad guys, where ever they are
- Charity begins at home, from family, friends, private charities, community programs, local churches, synagogues, temples
- look to yourself, your family, your friends, your religion, your church / synagogue / temple for help, support, salvation

That's it. Hide your venom behind God. Sadly, it sometimes works. No real God would want to be associated with you.

[Lawrence Wolf]

USAmerican wrote:

Its a Capitalistic society...
you have to fend for yourself...
there is NO free lunch.
<quoted text>

For those whose children are starving, here and elsewhere, there should be a free lunch. People with your selfish philosophy cause untold suffering in the world.

[Lawrence Wolf]

MidGeorgia wrote:

<quoted text>
ACTUALLY...It's "I earned mine, why don't you do the same. Instead, you use the power of government to take mine and give it to you."

Bulldoody. Yours is the politics of selfishness. It is mean-spirited and un-American in the truest sense.

[carey529]

Lawrence Wolf wrote:

<quoted text>For those whose children are starving, here and elsewhere, there should be a free lunch. People with your selfish philosophy cause untold suffering in the world.

So, buy them lunch.

[Lawrence Wolf]

carey529 wrote:

<quoted text>
So, buy them lunch.

I have bought some. But that's not enough. Why don't you help out?

[USAmerican]

It's on the abled bodies parent to care and take care of their children... if not, they can ask for help from family, friends, church, synagogue, temple, private charities... not me, not the government.

Government is not the solution to anything

Lawrence Wolf wrote:

<quoted text>For those whose children are starving, here and elsewhere, there should be a free lunch. People with your selfish philosophy cause untold suffering in the world.

[Lawrence Wolf]

USAmerican wrote:

It's on the abled bodies parent to care and take care of their children... if not, they can ask for help from family, friends, church, synagogue, temple, private charities... not me, not the government.
Government is not the solution to anything
<quoted text>

Government MUST provide the solution. I don't know if you call yourself Christian, but Jesus would be ashamed of you.

[CrAzY Ox3thOng Olien]

Lawrence Wolf wrote:

<quoted text>Bulldoody. Yours is the politics of selfishness. It is mean-spirited and un-American in the truest sense.

well come 2 AmeriCa !

God bmore on or bless U !

U R more house, care, food,$?

:-)))))))) homeless people more god than most of U

:-))))))))

[CrAzY Ox3thOng Olien]

USAmerican wrote:

It's on the abled bodies parent to care and take care of their children... if not, they can ask for help from family, friends, church, synagogue, temple, private charities... not me, not the government.
Government is not the solution to anything
<quoted text>

USAmeriCa !

a+ 4 u

;-)))))))))

[death and taxes]

USAmerican wrote:

Its a Capitalistic society...
you have to fend for yourself...
there is NO free lunch.
<quoted text>

Unless you own an Oil company,Pharmacutical company,Bear-Stearns, Fannie Mae,Freddie Mac,Halliburton,Black Water or "Scooter Libby".

[Don Joe]

USAmerican wrote:

Let's try a definition of capitalism:
Capitalism is the economic system in which the means of production are owned by private persons, and operated for profit[1] and where investments, distribution, income, production and pricing of goods and services are predominantly determined through the operation of a free market.[2] Capitalism is usually considered to involve the right of individuals and corporations to trade, incorporate, employ workers, and use money, in goods, services (including finance), labor and land.[2] By definition, production and distribution in a capitalist system are governed by the free market rather than state regulation,[3] though this does not exclude the state defining and enforcing the basic rules of the market[4] and may include the provision of a few basic public goods and infrastructure.[5] Classic unrestrained capitalism is currently confined to theory, as "all of the capitalistic societies of the West have mixed economies that temper capitalism" with interventionist government regulation and social programs.[6] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism
>>> So less government regulation moves closer to a truly free market economy ... more government intervention moves to a marxist society
.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism#Marxi...
>>> See that last sentence ... more regulation is closer to marxism
<quoted text>

Starting with definitions? Great, even if I disagree that is a great place to start.
I was referring to the free market as a part of capitalism. A free market is essential to operation of capitalism. In order for a free market to exist, there must be rules of operation of the market. Monopolies cannot be allowed to exist because by their very definition they do not allow free trade. No other organization can participate in the product or service they provide. If they provide an essential element of society, they can charge an amount unrelated to the cost of the element. Food would be an example. If one organization provided all the food, if you wanted to eat, you would pay whatever they asked, and they could ask for everything. Fuel would be another, easier to create monopoly. If one group owned all the sources for fuel, then they could charge exorbitant prices and society would have to pay them. Collusion between companies for the purpose to operate as a monopoly is just as damaging.
The long term outcome of allowing single entities to charge outrageous prices is that they end up with all the marbles. Money is power and they end up with all the power. That is the definition of totalitarianism.
Thus I expect that some rules are required. One might ask if we have too many rules now, or not enough. In some ways we have too many, in others not enough.
Mostly I fall on the not enough side. For example; many industries do not have a free market because they are closed to others trying to enter that market. I am not sure if the problem is not enough regulation, or simply not enough enforcement of the regulations already on the books.
I guess there is a continuum of more regulation and less regulation. More and more regulation leads to Marxism and less and less regulation leads to totalitarianism. We need to strike a happy balance. With so many monopolies now in place, with an economic distribution system that strongly favors the wealthy, I believe we are close to totalitarianism and we need to move quickly back to a more balanced set of laws.

[USAmerican]

Religion is on the individual, the family, the community of neighbor ... not the government.

The jews, pegans, romans did not want 'christianity' as we now know it...

Don't confuse the two (being a good person - religion, with being a good citizen)

... more to come

Lawrence Wolf wrote:

<quoted text>Government MUST provide the solution. I don't know if you call yourself Christian, but Jesus would be ashamed of you.

[Lawrence Wolf]

USAmerican wrote:

Religion is on the individual, the family, the community of neighbor ... not the government.
The jews, pegans, romans did not want 'christianity' as we now know it...
Don't confuse the two (being a good person - religion, with being a good citizen)
... more to come
<quoted text>

You've got this all twisted. I am the last person who wants religion in government. I'm making a quite simple point. A decent, caring person would want to help the needy. Since charities can only scratch the surface of the enormous problems we have with poverty, minimal or no medical care for millions, people having to choose between getting needed prescriptions and feeding themselves and their children, terrible public education, government MUST step in.

I mentioned Jesus simply to point out that he was all about helping others. If he were here today, he would be branded a Liberal.