If only Mugabe were white

[De Wit Meester]

Golden wrote:

<quoted text>
I understand "De Wit Meester",
Ian Smith was a "saint" if you are among those who benefited from his madness. Try not to have a one sided view of history, lest we think you are a cousin to one of these historical despots. Mind you, there were plenty of Black Zimbabwean refugees even during Ian Smith's rule in Zimbabwe. They are plenty of these refugees who have since permantly settled in Zambia(the country I come from.) You certainly have the right to selective ameneasia, but real history is uncompromising.

Ok average life expectancy is 37 in Zimbabwe now under Smith it was 65.It's only logical to assume Mugabe caused more death than Smith because people aren't living that long today in Zimbabwe.Also was more than Half the population in another country under Smith?Maby the topic should Be What if Smith was Black?

[bullet Mafirakureva]

chimurenga wrote:

<quoted text>
What if he was a mixed race homosexual cross dressing albino from scottish thai parents?

LMAO! If he was also disabled we would be screwed coz then no one can fire him

[bullet Mafirakureva]

De Wit Meester wrote:

<quoted text>
Ok average life expectancy is 37 in Zimbabwe now under Smith it was 65.It's only logical to assume Mugabe caused more death than Smith because people aren't living that long today in Zimbabwe.Also was more than Half the population in another country under Smith?Maby the topic should Be What if Smith was Black?

Too many variables to compare. I agree with you to a point but its not as simple as that. Mugabe has been in power longer, it is much easier to migrate now than it was back in Smith's time etc etc. I think I may be taking the thread too seriously so Mr. Wit and the other, carry on! lol

[De Wit Meester]

bullet Mafirakureva wrote:

<quoted text>
Too many variables to compare. I agree with you to a point but its not as simple as that. Mugabe has been in power longer, it is much easier to migrate now than it was back in Smith's time etc etc. I think I may be taking the thread too seriously so Mr. Wit and the other, carry on! lol

Good point Didn't think of those viariables.They couldn't exactly cross over into SA under Apartheid.So what do you think would be a Solution to Sorting out Zimbabwe.I don't think Mugabe is a man who will make comprimises when it comes to sharing power with say Tsangiri[unless hes in a corner]and I doubt it's as plain and simple as toppling Mugabe and replacing him with Tsangiri.Sanctions will just make things worse as well.If our Government maby took some time to train Zimbabwean refuges from the MDC in leadership skills and the UN gave a strict ultimatum to Mugabe either share power or Face invasion then I doubt Mugabe would be so big mouth.He's looking after his own interests and I doubt he would want to end up like Milosovic or Saddam.UN peacekeepers in the Region would also be a must.

[bullet Mafirakureva]

De Wit Meester wrote:

<quoted text>
Good point Didn't think of those viariables.They couldn't exactly cross over into SA under Apartheid.So what do you think would be a Solution to Sorting out Zimbabwe.I don't think Mugabe is a man who will make comprimises when it comes to sharing power with say Tsangiri[unless hes in a corner]and I doubt it's as plain and simple as toppling Mugabe and replacing him with Tsangiri.Sanctions will just make things worse as well.If our Government maby took some time to train Zimbabwean refuges from the MDC in leadership skills and the UN gave a strict ultimatum to Mugabe either share power or Face invasion then I doubt Mugabe would be so big mouth.He's looking after his own interests and I doubt he would want to end up like Milosovic or Saddam.UN peacekeepers in the Region would also be a must.

hey, I responded to your comments about 20 minutes ago but it appears it has not registered. I will give it till tomorrow and then I will rewrite my response....

[bullet Mafirakureva]

De Wit Meester wrote:

<quoted text>
Good point Didn't think of those viariables.They couldn't exactly cross over into SA under Apartheid.So what do you think would be a Solution to Sorting out Zimbabwe.I don't think Mugabe is a man who will make comprimises when it comes to sharing power with say Tsangiri[unless hes in a corner]and I doubt it's as plain and simple as toppling Mugabe and replacing him with Tsangiri.Sanctions will just make things worse as well.If our Government maby took some time to train Zimbabwean refuges from the MDC in leadership skills and the UN gave a strict ultimatum to Mugabe either share power or Face invasion then I doubt Mugabe would be so big mouth.He's looking after his own interests and I doubt he would want to end up like Milosovic or Saddam.UN peacekeepers in the Region would also be a must.

Looks like my original comment has been lost in cyberspace. Well, the gist of my solution was that with or without Mugabe, things need to be sorted in Zimbabwe. I agree with you, sanctions, smart sanctions assassination and invasion are not the most effective of plans if we have anything to learn from history. Invasion certainly has not improved things in Iraq.

I think for Zimbabwe to realise prosperity again, Rule of Law must be restored. Topping the priority list would be education and health and social care. Hospitals and schools shall open doors to all, with heavey investment going into health education and health promotion.

Government departments shall be rid of all corrupt activity. Accountability lines shall be transparent with those with ultimate responsibility brought to book when things do not add up. Consumerism should be promoted in order to allow the legal system to ensure compensation where minimal acceptable standards are not met (if it does not do what it says on the packet, sue and you shall be compansated). This raises quality and accountability. Trade shall be promoted but where economic growth and stability are present, foreign and local invetsment sorts itself out anyway.

Then there is the all important issue of land. Because they have screwed this one up big time, I feel a total reset will be warranted. Back to the drawing board with all original deed holders given back their land. This then allows the government to allocate land equally but in a controlled manner which allows the original farmers at least 5 years before their land can be divided. The reason I would say at least 5yrs is because this would allow commercial farming to provide food for the nation and surplus can be traded just as before. Tax incentives or subsidies shall be granted to all farmers who train and have work alliances with Black wannabe farmers (on the job training of course). Farmers' Unions are then set up to agree minimal standards and consequently a governing body that manages this. In for example 10 years, the open market system can be allowed with all non performing farmers risking the takeover of their land by performing farmers.

At the end of the day, though this is my uneducated opinion, I beleive that killing Mugabe will only spill a lot more blood on the streets. Do not get me wrong, I think the bastard needs to go. I think his and all his cronies foreign accounts should be frozen and all the money brought back into circulation in Zim. I also think that the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe should equal if not better the black market rate on forex yet offering more security for one's money. It is a complex issue and I comprehend there is no single solution and I do hope that we can resolve this mess soon. Go on Mr De Wit, lets put the world to rights...

[melkpie]

bullet Mafirakureva wrote:

<quoted text>
Looks like my original comment has been lost in cyberspace. Well, the gist of my solution was that with or without Mugabe, things need to be sorted in Zimbabwe. I agree with you, sanctions, smart sanctions assassination and invasion are not the most effective of plans if we have anything to learn from history. Invasion certainly has not improved things in Iraq.
I think for Zimbabwe to realise prosperity again, Rule of Law must be restored. Topping the priority list would be education and health and social care. Hospitals and schools shall open doors to all, with heavey investment going into health education and health promotion.
Government departments shall be rid of all corrupt activity. Accountability lines shall be transparent with those with ultimate responsibility brought to book when things do not add up. Consumerism should be promoted in order to allow the legal system to ensure compensation where minimal acceptable standards are not met (if it does not do what it says on the packet, sue and you shall be compansated). This raises quality and accountability. Trade shall be promoted but where economic growth and stability are present, foreign and local invetsment sorts itself out anyway.
Then there is the all important issue of land. Because they have screwed this one up big time, I feel a total reset will be warranted. Back to the drawing board with all original deed holders given back their land. This then allows the government to allocate land equally but in a controlled manner which allows the original farmers at least 5 years before their land can be divided. The reason I would say at least 5yrs is because this would allow commercial farming to provide food for the nation and surplus can be traded just as before. Tax incentives or subsidies shall be granted to all farmers who train and have work alliances with Black wannabe farmers (on the job training of course). Farmers' Unions are then set up to agree minimal standards and consequently a governing body that manages this. In for example 10 years, the open market system can be allowed with all non performing farmers risking the takeover of their land by performing farmers.
At the end of the day, though this is my uneducated opinion, I beleive that killing Mugabe will only spill a lot more blood on the streets. Do not get me wrong, I think the bastard needs to go. I think his and all his cronies foreign accounts should be frozen and all the money brought back into circulation in Zim. I also think that the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe should equal if not better the black market rate on forex yet offering more security for one's money. It is a complex issue and I comprehend there is no single solution and I do hope that we can resolve this mess soon. Go on Mr De Wit, lets put the world to rights...

Get a white guy in charge and all these issues will go away...

[bullet Mafirakureva]

melkpie wrote:

<quoted text>
Get a white guy in charge and all these issues will go away...

if it was that simple, why do these issues exist even in Western countries? Crime rates are at their highest in the UK, Housing market down, unemployment rising, standards in schools lowered just so pupils can pass. Explain this trend seeing as Gordon Brown is white. Let me guess, you are going to accuse him of being Scottish! Sorry Melkie but I do not think its as simple as black or white...

[De Wit meester]

The solution is to get the ANC capitilist faction[Sexwale,Tutu,Tabo's Bro etc] to break from the communist one[less Mbeki of course]
and join with the DA.The Anc needs to wake up and realise communism is a Freudian Philosophy.Look Mbeki is an idiot but lets face it Zuma could possibly be worse.

[melkpie]

bullet Mafirakureva wrote:

<quoted text>
if it was that simple, why do these issues exist even in Western countries? Crime rates are at their highest in the UK, Housing market down, unemployment rising, standards in schools lowered just so pupils can pass. Explain this trend seeing as Gordon Brown is white. Let me guess, you are going to accuse him of being Scottish! Sorry Melkie but I do not think its as simple as black or white...

I'll take their problems over Africa's any day man...also, white governments manage to get their countries through tough times like the Great Depression. Black African leaders only know one way, down. South Africa is a perfect example. If we were where we are but on an upward curve, I'd be happy...but we're not.

[bullet Mafirakureva]

De Wit meester wrote:

The solution is to get the ANC capitilist faction[Sexwale,Tutu,Tabo's Bro etc] to break from the communist one[less Mbeki of course]
and join with the DA.The Anc needs to wake up and realise communism is a Freudian Philosophy.Look Mbeki is an idiot but lets face it Zuma could possibly be worse.

The content analysis of this subject makes it very complicated to have the perfect solution. Unfortunately communism bodes well with most of the black African way of thinking and culture. It however struggles to find its place in main stream politics where constraints are dictated by other, more powerful societies. I don't have much knowledge on Zuma's background but one thing is for sure; Communism is Freudian Philosophy and we all know that Freud's one weakness was that; not only was most of his research was based on a sample of middle class Viennese (from Vienna) women but it also held strong bearing that childhood experiences strongly affected behaviours in adulthood. This scarily would mean we are all f*cked..

[bullet Mafirakureva]

melkpie wrote:

<quoted text>
I'll take their problems over Africa's any day man...also, white governments manage to get their countries through tough times like the Great Depression. Black African leaders only know one way, down. South Africa is a perfect example. If we were where we are but on an upward curve, I'd be happy...but we're not.

Bear in mind that there is a global recession and unfortunately some will feel it more than others. Other peoples problems almost always seem more bearable than ones' own and in all honesty, I appreciate whay you would be saying this. Africa is undeniably bad and there is nothing to be proud of. Trust me, I am proud to be African but not proud of Africa at present....

[Golden]

De Wit Meester wrote:

<quoted text>
Ian Smith is a saint compared to Mugabe

Are you kidding me man!
Anyway, going by your standards, who is worse: Hitler or Lucifer? In my world, evil is evil and should be condemned as such.

[Golden]

melkpie wrote:

<quoted text>
Get a white guy in charge and all these issues will go away...

Only true if you don't forget to give him a whip in one hand and gun in the other. What a load of crap!

[De Wit meester]

bullet Mafirakureva wrote:

<quoted text>
The content analysis of this subject makes it very complicated to have the perfect solution. Unfortunately communism bodes well with most of the black African way of thinking and culture. It however struggles to find its place in main stream politics where constraints are dictated by other, more powerful societies. I don't have much knowledge on Zuma's background but one thing is for sure; Communism is Freudian Philosophy and we all know that Freud's one weakness was that; not only was most of his research was based on a sample of middle class Viennese (from Vienna) women but it also held strong bearing that childhood experiences strongly affected behaviours in adulthood. This scarily would mean we are all f*cked..

A lot of Africa still needs to get over its cold war mentality and I agree its very hard for many blacks to move on. Communist thinking on land ownership ie] collective farming is very similiar to what Traditional Africans believed land ownership should be all about.If say the Da or IFP or any opposition party perhaps made an effort to try persuade Black Africans land redristribution wasn't in their best interest[at least not for the time being] then perhaps blacks could focus their attention on more pressing matters.Things like Illegal immigration.In my opinion the local black population is more negatively affected by illegal immigration than land being held in the hands of white farmers.

[De Wit meester]

Golden wrote:

<quoted text>
Are you kidding me man!
Anyway, going by your standards, who is worse: Hitler or Lucifer? In my world, evil is evil and should be condemned as such.

What is worse Iraq under Evil Saddam or Iraq under a puppet Government?I'm using Stability and numbers killed because of neglect or government sponsored killing as a measure of evil.Interesting you bring up Hitler I'd say he was more evil than George W Bush but not as evil as say Ghengis Khan.
Saddam would be evil but not as evil as what George W and what he brought on Iraq and it's people.

As for Lucifer which one the Christian Lucifer or the Roman Lucifer of light,wisdom and englightenment.Can you can please bring me stats on how many people lucifer killed?Lol

Evil is Evil and should be condemned as such?
Goodluck condemning every leader since and including king David

[De Wit meester]

Golden wrote:

<quoted text>
Only true if you don't forget to give him a whip in one hand and gun in the other. What a load of crap!

That sums up mugabe

[get fiscal]

It really is a shame Mugabe has not been assassinated yet. He turned the most promising country on the African continent into a cesspool.

[De Wit meester]

get fiscal wrote:

It really is a shame Mugabe has not been assassinated yet. He turned the most promising country on the African continent into a cesspool.

correction he is turning it back into pre- colonialism

[Golden]

De Wit meester wrote:

<quoted text>
That sums up mugabe

My point exactly...
Leadership isn't exclusive to one race or skin color. Anyone who thinks so needs some serious psychological help.